Preventing Scams as a Runner - Guild Wars Forums

Agressor · Feb 03, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Hello, I am relatively new to these forums, and this is my first post. I've recently been running people with my warrior, and have spent some time running people to Droknar's Forge. However, there seems to be a lot of people who refuse to pay at the agreed locations. I have taken preventive measure such as asking to see their money before we leave, yet people still scam. On a number of occasions, I have reached Snake Dance and 1 to 2 people refuse to pay the agreed amount. Continuing the run would give these scammers a victory, and refusing to run any further would be unfair to the people who paid me the money. So my question is this: what can I do to prevent this from happening, or am I just out of luck if it happens? What should I do if some people refuse to pay me at Snake Dance? Thank you in advance for any answers.

Sk8tborderx · Feb 03, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

I usually tell them that they pay there because that was the agreement and if they refuse let them know you are taking screen shots and will report them. Usually they pay after that and some leave. The ones that leave are looking for a stupid runner to scam.

Blue Steel · Feb 03, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

You may have heard of my Running Academy (LBSRA), and it was created in many ways to address this exact problem. Runners want to treat their paying customers right, lots of scammers want to rip runners off, and paying at a midpoitn doesn't help much if you have some of each in the party. The perfect solution is to collect the payment in advance, but the only way to do that was to establish the source of credibility as a Runners Academy that actually certifies the honest runners. After all, lots of runners are scammers, too, so customers need a way to know they won't be cheated.

Graduates of LBSRA collect hundreds of thousands of gold in advance of runs, and people pay because they completely trust and understand our system. They can go afk for world tours and other multi-hour runs and know that the run will be completed flawlessly.

My advice? Charge in advance.

Manic Smile · Feb 03, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

For the average runner there is no way. Most people, myself included will not pay in advance and in fact are warry of paying in the middle as well.

Comes with the buisness.

koneko · Feb 03, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Steel

<snip>

Wow, shameless self-promotion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agressor

what can I do to prevent this from happening

There's not much you can do to prevent taking scammers into your party. By asking that they show the money before you start the run (as annoying as it is, and as much time as it takes), you at least cut the chance of being scammed by a small margin.

If someone refuses to pay at the designated area, I refund those that have already paid the agreed upon sum and offer to redo the run for them - not a big deal for me. That way, it's still fair to those that aren't trying to scam you (they get their money back, all they've lost is the time it took you to reach Snake Dance) and it doesn't benefit the scammers (they get nowhere).

Manic Smile · Feb 03, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

Wow, shameless self-promotion.

I don't see why she should be ashamed...nothing she said wasn't true and she/her guild does provide a needed service...not to say no one else could do it.

Quote:

There's not much you can do to prevent taking scammers into your party. By asking that they show the money before you start the run (as annoying as it is, and as much time as it takes), you at least cut the chance of being scammed by a small margin.

If someone refuses to pay at the designated area, I refund those that have already paid the agreed upon sum and offer to redo the run for them - not a big deal for me. That way, it's still fair to those that aren't trying to scam you (they get their money back, all they've lost is the time it took you to reach Snake Dance) and it doesn't benefit the scammers (they get nowhere).

that's true...most that show you the money will pay the money...but you do still get scammed

ERMC · Feb 03, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

if they do not agree to pay at the spot u agree on the easiest solution to do without being ripped is to tell the others if they still want to be ran meet back at beacon's. Granted u just wasted 15 min or so but atleast u won't get ripped off and the players that still wanted to get ran will come back. Refund anyone that payed before they person that refused to pay at the point and zone back to beacons and go again.

cagan · Feb 03, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Simple, but time taking.
Before leaving tell the runee's that if anyone doesn't pay at the designated halfway point, you will take a screenie of them refusing to pay, submit it, and you will restart the run, kicking the offenders before leaving.
Knowing that they simply aren't going to get to the destination is often enough to dispatch most scammers, and knowing this before walking out the door can help your good runee's not be upset when you restart the run.

If you're feeling particularly generous, you might offer your remaining runee's a small discount for bearing with you.
Most people will understand that scammers can't be allowed to have a free go.

Simple.
Only works on runs with a reasonable halfway point of course.

William Stark · Feb 03, 2006, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Telling the group you will re-start the run and why can work if you really mean it- I have had a couple fo people who were mysteriously 'afk' at Snakes suddenly re-appear and pay when I announce this.

It is a pain though, but mostly when you get the runner equivalent of a PUG. In those circumstances I am willing to take slightly harsher measures, like re-starting with the rest of the group at a discount.

Nowadays I usually find that in amongst most groups I run there are one or more people who specifically arranged for me to help them. For a Droknar run I will fill out the group in the normal way at Beacons, but my key priority is always to the client who arranged to meet me.

Although I will keep an eye out for scammers, I won't allow it to impact on the service I offer to the primary client- they are paying for an agreed service and the risks of scammers are mine, not theirs. The annoyance is not worth a loss of professionalism.

nuggz · Feb 03, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

when someone doesnt pay the only decent option is to refund and start over.Unfortunatly doing so makes yourself look bad becasue advertising another run so shortly after getting the original party together makes you look like a nub who either was ripping people off or constantly failed and needs new test subjects.
Usually my problem would be the jerks that pretend to be afk at snakes. Its sad because sometimes other decent players will offer to temporarely pay for the afk preson only to get ripped off himself when the time comes. Ive tried reporting someone for this and the process is so screwed up i dont think they ever got banned(i kept getting emails asking me to send more information and i kept doing so and finally i get a email saying i never responded, which i did numeriously) so i dont know.
One good thing about asking a player to show money in advance, it gives a really good preview into how cooperative the person is. if they haggle you about it at first, they will probably not bother paying when it's time. and this might be a stretch but also try not accepting players that are advertising that they need a free ride. they are probably broke and got tired of waiting for a good test runner.I guess informing the party you will not accept afks or deadbeats and will start over if needed is the best bet to avoid ripoffs and angry clients

basically i dont run anymore because of these things. also dealing with people is a real drag( every group ive run has that one nub that keeps drawing/pinging on the radar and telling you to heal yourself ) im happier with the griffs, they arent much for convo, but dont give you much hassle either.
Hope that helps a little and good luck on your running, dont let a few jerks(ok there are more than a few) ruin your pastime.

Seissor · Feb 03, 2006, 12:28 PM // 12:28

I ask for 3/4 of it at Snake Dance. Those who claim I may leave and rip them off, I inform them to hit print screen. If 5ppl report me for scamming in such short time I'm bound to be banned. With that said, anyone who was worried I may scam them is more relieved. Also if you can make it to snakedance you can make it to drok. I think snakedance is the easiest part of the run, its just the longest one.

If you want to be REALLY cautious as a runner ask to see money first. Tell them individually,
you "Hey user 1 Im running you to df for 2k at snake dance 1k at forge, you accept the deal?"

them - "yes"

Screen shot the agreement, helps for reporting but you dont have to, thats only if you are REALLY cautious. Quitters and pretend AFK'ers exist.

If you want to go bonkers ask everyone to press 1 before you zone, so you know everyone is active as of 5 seconds ago.

Scammers end up doing themselves in anyways, no one gives good deals to ppl who act like tards. I've gotten 30% off items or things for free, simply because i was polite. Act like a dork and dont expect discounts or favors.

shadowfell · Feb 03, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

Wow, shameless self-promotion.

Agreed...

Blue Steel · Feb 03, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuggz

basically i dont run anymore because of these things. also dealing with people is a real drag( every group ive run has that one nub that keeps drawing/pinging on the radar and telling you to heal yourself ) im happier with the griffs, they arent much for convo, but dont give you much hassle either.
Hope that helps a little and good luck on your running, dont let a few jerks(ok there are more than a few) ruin your pastime.

Again, this is exactly the challenge that new runners face: when they set their rates for their running services, they consider how much they can make farming and how much they can make running, and whether or not they can do both. But they rarely consider the time they spend on their running that involves very significant time investment. Looking at people's money, trying to figure out if someone is really afk or just ripping you off, putting your parties together, making all of your good customers (who also value their own time!) return to beacons to reform without a couple of scammers, and so forth all take significant time. Most runners are playing the game in a very fun way, but subjecting themselves to unnecessary frustrations and making less money in the end than they could trading or farming.

Call it self-promotion if you'd like, but I always try to provide helpful answers in these threads, and I am telling you that I grappled with these questions about a year ago, and the only way running ever becomes worth it is when you have a system of trust and a reputation. I would never dream of charging along the way for a world tour (it simply takes way too long to collect in every city), but when scores of people are willing to pay 400,000 gold in advance of a run that they aren't going to be around for, you know you are doing something right, and more importantly they know that if the connection fails while they are gone, you will refund every last coin or finish the run as soon as they are back.

Feb 03, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35	#1
Agressor Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Feb 2006	Preventing Scams as a Runner Hello, I am relatively new to these forums, and this is my first post. I've recently been running people with my warrior, and have spent some time running people to Droknar's Forge. However, there seems to be a lot of people who refuse to pay at the agreed locations. I have taken preventive measure such as asking to see their money before we leave, yet people still scam. On a number of occasions, I have reached Snake Dance and 1 to 2 people refuse to pay the agreed amount. Continuing the run would give these scammers a victory, and refusing to run any further would be unfair to the people who paid me the money. So my question is this: what can I do to prevent this from happening, or am I just out of luck if it happens? What should I do if some people refuse to pay me at Snake Dance? Thank you in advance for any answers.

Feb 03, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40	#2
Sk8tborderx Jungle Guide Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: PA Guild: Us Are Not [leet] Profession: W/	I usually tell them that they pay there because that was the agreement and if they refuse let them know you are taking screen shots and will report them. Usually they pay after that and some leave. The ones that leave are looking for a stupid runner to scam.

Feb 03, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49	#3
Blue Steel Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: The Blue Empire [BLUE] Profession: W/Mo	You may have heard of my Running Academy (LBSRA), and it was created in many ways to address this exact problem. Runners want to treat their paying customers right, lots of scammers want to rip runners off, and paying at a midpoitn doesn't help much if you have some of each in the party. The perfect solution is to collect the payment in advance, but the only way to do that was to establish the source of credibility as a Runners Academy that actually certifies the honest runners. After all, lots of runners are scammers, too, so customers need a way to know they won't be cheated. Graduates of LBSRA collect hundreds of thousands of gold in advance of runs, and people pay because they completely trust and understand our system. They can go afk for world tours and other multi-hour runs and know that the run will be completed flawlessly. My advice? Charge in advance.

Feb 03, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32	#4
Manic Smile Desert Nomad Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Hawaii Guild: ----- 15^50[Rare] ---- Alliance: ----- [SMS] -----	For the average runner there is no way. Most people, myself included will not pay in advance and in fact are warry of paying in the middle as well. Comes with the buisness.

Feb 03, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30	#7
ERMC Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2005 Profession: Mo/Me	if they do not agree to pay at the spot u agree on the easiest solution to do without being ripped is to tell the others if they still want to be ran meet back at beacon's. Granted u just wasted 15 min or so but atleast u won't get ripped off and the players that still wanted to get ran will come back. Refund anyone that payed before they person that refused to pay at the point and zone back to beacons and go again.

Feb 03, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41	#8
cagan Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: Me/Mo	Simple, but time taking. Before leaving tell the runee's that if anyone doesn't pay at the designated halfway point, you will take a screenie of them refusing to pay, submit it, and you will restart the run, kicking the offenders before leaving. Knowing that they simply aren't going to get to the destination is often enough to dispatch most scammers, and knowing this before walking out the door can help your good runee's not be upset when you restart the run. If you're feeling particularly generous, you might offer your remaining runee's a small discount for bearing with you. Most people will understand that scammers can't be allowed to have a free go. Simple. Only works on runs with a reasonable halfway point of course.

Feb 03, 2006, 09:07 AM // 09:07	#9
William Stark Academy Page Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK Guild: The Imperial Guards Profession: W/Mo	Telling the group you will re-start the run and why can work if you really mean it- I have had a couple fo people who were mysteriously 'afk' at Snakes suddenly re-appear and pay when I announce this. It is a pain though, but mostly when you get the runner equivalent of a PUG. In those circumstances I am willing to take slightly harsher measures, like re-starting with the rest of the group at a discount. Nowadays I usually find that in amongst most groups I run there are one or more people who specifically arranged for me to help them. For a Droknar run I will fill out the group in the normal way at Beacons, but my key priority is always to the client who arranged to meet me. Although I will keep an eye out for scammers, I won't allow it to impact on the service I offer to the primary client- they are paying for an agreed service and the risks of scammers are mine, not theirs. The annoyance is not worth a loss of professionalism.

Feb 03, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28	#10
nuggz Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2005	when someone doesnt pay the only decent option is to refund and start over.Unfortunatly doing so makes yourself look bad becasue advertising another run so shortly after getting the original party together makes you look like a nub who either was ripping people off or constantly failed and needs new test subjects. Usually my problem would be the jerks that pretend to be afk at snakes. Its sad because sometimes other decent players will offer to temporarely pay for the afk preson only to get ripped off himself when the time comes. Ive tried reporting someone for this and the process is so screwed up i dont think they ever got banned(i kept getting emails asking me to send more information and i kept doing so and finally i get a email saying i never responded, which i did numeriously) so i dont know. One good thing about asking a player to show money in advance, it gives a really good preview into how cooperative the person is. if they haggle you about it at first, they will probably not bother paying when it's time. and this might be a stretch but also try not accepting players that are advertising that they need a free ride. they are probably broke and got tired of waiting for a good test runner.I guess informing the party you will not accept afks or deadbeats and will start over if needed is the best bet to avoid ripoffs and angry clients basically i dont run anymore because of these things. also dealing with people is a real drag( every group ive run has that one nub that keeps drawing/pinging on the radar and telling you to heal yourself ) im happier with the griffs, they arent much for convo, but dont give you much hassle either. Hope that helps a little and good luck on your running, dont let a few jerks(ok there are more than a few) ruin your pastime.

Feb 03, 2006, 12:28 PM // 12:28	#11
Seissor Jungle Guide Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Squiggilyville. Population: Me. Guild: [oRly] Hello Kitty Death Squad Profession: R/Me	I ask for 3/4 of it at Snake Dance. Those who claim I may leave and rip them off, I inform them to hit print screen. If 5ppl report me for scamming in such short time I'm bound to be banned. With that said, anyone who was worried I may scam them is more relieved. Also if you can make it to snakedance you can make it to drok. I think snakedance is the easiest part of the run, its just the longest one. If you want to be REALLY cautious as a runner ask to see money first. Tell them individually, you "Hey user 1 Im running you to df for 2k at snake dance 1k at forge, you accept the deal?" them - "yes" Screen shot the agreement, helps for reporting but you dont have to, thats only if you are REALLY cautious. Quitters and pretend AFK'ers exist. If you want to go bonkers ask everyone to press 1 before you zone, so you know everyone is active as of 5 seconds ago. Scammers end up doing themselves in anyways, no one gives good deals to ppl who act like tards. I've gotten 30% off items or things for free, simply because i was polite. Act like a dork and dont expect discounts or favors.